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In the second episode of the Fashion Pioneers Podcast, host Chanel Trapman sits down with Johanna Ramaer, Sustainability Manager at America Today and MS Mode. Her role sits at the intersection of ambition and reality: translating sustainability goals into action within two established fashion brands.

The conversation reveals something that is often overlooked in sustainability discussions. The real challenge is rarely technical. It is human.

Sustainability as change management

Inside large fashion brands, sustainability is rarely a straight path. Supply chains are complex. Teams operate across departments and continents. Commercial targets must coexist with environmental goals.

For Ramaer, the work often comes down to a central challenge: changing behavior.

“It’s basically change management. I have to challenge colleagues, suppliers, and other stakeholders to change the status quo.”

That means shifting the way people think, work, and make decisions across the organization. Suppliers need to reconsider factory choices. Buyers need to integrate sustainability into product development. Internal teams must learn to see the supply chain differently.

The lesson she learned over the years is clear.

“It’s much more about changing people. Once people start to care and become aware of the issues, that’s when the real impact happens.”

When people understand the problem and begin to care about it, sustainability stops being the responsibility of a single department. It becomes a shared effort. At the same time, that kind of change rarely happens all at once. In practice, progress is often built through smaller, realistic steps that keep people motivated and make improvement feel achievable.

Why communication matters more than we think

Another key theme of the episode is communication.

Many brands have become cautious about talking about sustainability due to fears of greenwashing. While regulation has helped raise the bar for transparency, it has also made some organizations hesitant to communicate at all.

According to Ramaer, that silence can become a barrier.

Without communication, sustainability remains isolated within one team. Other departments see it as distant, complex, and unrelated to their daily work.

Instead, communication can make the topic tangible. Small initiatives can already create connection. For example, introducing colleagues from sourcing offices abroad or sharing behind the scenes insights into the supply chain can help teams understand the bigger picture.

These moments may seem small, but they build engagement across the organization and help turn sustainability into something people can actively connect with.

Celebrating the small wins

One of the most important lessons Johanna Ramaer shares is also one of the simplest. In sustainability work, it is easy to become fixated on everything that still needs to improve. The fashion industry has a long way to go, and the list of challenges can feel endless.

But focusing only on what is still wrong can make the work feel frustrating and overwhelming.

Ramaer learned that progress requires a different mindset.

“Celebrate the successes. Sustainability can always be better, so you always focus on what still needs to be done. But if you don’t celebrate the successes, the story becomes very negative.”

Recognizing progress keeps teams motivated. It shows colleagues, suppliers, and partners that their efforts matter and that change is actually happening. Even small improvements, such as switching to a better factory or increasing awareness within the company, are meaningful steps forward.

Because systemic change in fashion rarely happens overnight. It happens through hundreds of small decisions, improvements, and collaborations across the supply chain. And if the industry wants people to stay engaged in that long journey, those steps forward deserve to be acknowledged along the way.

Listen to the full episode of the Fashion Pioneers Podcast on Spotify to hear the complete conversation with Johanna Ramaer.